Interview given by M. Bernard Kouchner, Minister of Foreign and European Affairs, to “France 24” (excerpts)

Paris, 18 July 2008

IRAN

Q. – (…) Iran, with this extraordinary U-turn by President Bush, who’s sending one of his envoys to Geneva for discussions, negotiations perhaps, with Tehran’s representative in charge of nuclear issues. Big question: is this the beginning of genuine negotiations? Can we hope for a compromise with Iran who, I remind viewers, is continuing to enrich her uranium for mysterious purposes?

THE MINISTER – You have to be two to negotiate. These are the beginnings of dialogue. As you know, on one side there are the Six, i.e. the five permanent members of the Security Council – Russia, China, the United Kingdom, United States and France, plus Germany. France, President Sarkozy said that we won’t tolerate – even the idea of – an Iranian atomic bomb; but dialogue is possible and necessary. We’ve always emphasized the necessity of dialogue and acted accordingly. This is why I can answer you with a bit of experience. It’s good, it’s not a U-turn but, to my mind, progress, or at least a change of policy on the part of the Americans. They didn’t expect to be participating in this Geneva dialogue but in the end they will be there. This is very good. As for the outcome of this discussion, I don’t know and moreover no one does. (…)

Q. – What counts for more: the more positive prospects emanating from the United States and Tehran, or the fact that Iran is carrying out manoeuvres and missile tests, threatening for Israel? The will to negotiate or showing one’s strength?

THE MINISTER – People always, regrettably, show their strength when they start a dialogue because of the need to conduct it from a position of strength.

Are things [manoeuvres and missile tests] going to go further? We won’t stand for it. Clearly, we have to talk about real issues, i.e. Iran is entitled to civilian nuclear energy. The Iran who signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty on nuclear weapons is not entitled to military nuclear power. (…)

ICT/SUDANESE PRESIDENT

Q. – On another sensitive matter, what’s your reaction to the International Criminal Court Chief Prosecutor’s accusation of genocide against the President of Sudan? And what’s happening at the moment with Sudan where, I remind viewers, there are UN soldiers and, secondly, in Chad where France and Europe also have a significant contingent?

THE MINISTER – (…) The decision of the International Criminal Court’s Chief Prosecutor, Luis Moreno Campo, can’t be criticized by advocates of an international justice system and we, France, were among those who established this court.

People need to know what’s happened. The Sudanese President, Mr al-Bashir, is accused of crimes against humanity, mass crimes, and even genocide. Several months ago, the Chief Prosecutor asked for the two men presumed responsible for these massacres to be surrendered. He has given the pre-trial chamber evidence [for the indictment of Mr al-Bashir] and it’s for this chamber’s judges to decide whether or not to issue an international arrest warrant.

Q. – The Russians and Chinese are furious…

THE MINISTER – I don’t think it’s the problem of individual nations, it’s about the Court, either you accept an international justice system or you don’t. Is there a system of justice and respect for human rights overriding State sovereignty? Yes, it’s what’s been called the duty to interfere, which has become the right to interfere. Today we talk about the responsibility to protect and the UN has voted for it. (…)

Q. – Do you think there may be negative consequences on the ground and that Sudan is going to react badly?

THE MINISTER – On the contrary, I hope there will be positive consequences. The situation can’t be more negative for the Darfuris who are still being killed four years on. That’s what matters. This international criminal justice system was created in the interest of peoples so as not to allow such massacres to be perpetrated without those responsible having to answer for their deeds and, above all, without [the international community having] the power to arrest them. Sudan has to implement the resolutions passed by the Security Council. It’s precisely because these resolutions aren’t being fully implemented that the Criminal Court has made its decision. I hope that they will at last be implemented. Sudan must react positively by implementing the United Nations resolutions, by delivering both Mr Haroun, and Mr Kosheib, the two men already indicted, protecting the Darfuris and restoring peace. That would be the only way to respond and I think the Russians and Chinese would very willingly accept it. (…)./.